Episode 23

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Published on:

31st May 2025

Jenny Lytle - #23 - May 31, 2025

Neurostimulation Podcast: Self-Care for Caregivers with Jenny Lytle

Welcome to the Neurostimulation Podcast! In this episode, we explore the intersection of neuroscience, clinical neurostimulation, and self-care for caregivers. Host Michael welcomes Jenny Lytle, an experienced hospice nurse and author of 'Self-Care Isn't Selfish.' They discuss Jenny's journey to prioritizing self-care, her BECOMING method, and practical tips to avoid burnout. This episode is perfect for healthcare professionals, caregivers, and anyone interested in improving their mental and emotional well-being.

https://www.selfcareisntselfish.com/

00:00 Introduction to the Neurostimulation Podcast

01:44 Meet Jenny Lytle: A Journey of Self-Discovery

03:00 The Importance of Self-Care for Caregivers

05:18 Balancing Caregiving and Self-Care

12:01 The BECOMING Method: Personalized Self-Care

18:13 Jenny's Book: Self-Care Isn't Selfish

20:43 Personal Reflections and Lessons Learned

24:54 Honoring a Loved One's Memory

25:12 Balancing Caregiving and Self-Care

26:11 Practical Self-Care Tips

27:36 The Power of Gratitude

29:47 Inspiration from Hospice Care

32:08 Faith and Spirituality in Self-Care

40:49 The Journey of Becoming

45:48 Resources and Final Thoughts

48:38 Podcast Conclusion

Transcript
Lyttle Intro:

Welcome to the Neurostimulation podcast.

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The Neurostimulation podcast is

all about exploring the fascinating

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world of neuroscience in general

and clinical neurostimulation in

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particular, how it works, the latest

research breakthroughs, and most

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importantly, how that research is being

translated into real world treatments

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that can improve health and wellness.

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Whether you're a healthcare professional,

a researcher, a student, or just someone

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who's curious about how our brains

work and what we can do to help them

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work better, this podcast is for you.

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My mission with this podcast is

to make neuroscience accessible,

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inspiring, and relevant to your life.

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This podcast is separate from my

clinical and academic roles, and

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is part of my personal effort to

bring neuroscience education to

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the general public free of charge.

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Accordingly, it's important that I

emphasize that the information shared in

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the podcast is intended for educational

purposes only and not as medical advice.

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Always consult with your own healthcare

provider to discuss your specific

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health needs and treatment options.

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This episode is presented by

ZIP Stim Neurostimulation.

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Zip Stim is the neurostimulation

clinic that I own and operate.

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For more information about our

neurostimulation programs, you

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can check us out at zipstim.com.

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That's Z-I-P-S-T-I M.com.

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Today I'm really excited to talk to

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Jenny Lytle.

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Jenny is a nurse with over

30 years of experience in

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hospice and end of life care.

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She experienced a profound shift

when her mother, who was also

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a nurse, suddenly passed away.

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In her grief, Jenny realized that

her mom, like so many nurses,

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had prioritized everyone else at

the expense of her own wellbeing.

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Determined to break that cycle.

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Jenny embarked on a journey of

self-discovery, embracing coaching,

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and personalized self-care.

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She found that caring for others really

does begin with caring for yourself.

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Now Jenny is the author of Self-Care

Isn't Selfish: The Compassionate Nurses

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Step-by-Step Guide to Stress Relief.

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Jenny helps nurses and other

caregivers through her proprietary

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BECOMING method, providing practical,

personalized strategies to manage stress,

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prioritize self-care, and continue

caring for others with greater impact.

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Jenny's message really is

that self-care isn't selfish.

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It's essential if we want to continue to

care for others and live our best lives.

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Mike: Welcome back to the

Neurostimulation podcast.

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Thanks again for joining us.

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Jenny: Thank you so much.

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I appreciate I appreciate

the opportunity, Michael

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Mike: So Jenny, could you please just

maybe introduce yourself, tell us a

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little bit about your background, and

then we can get into understanding

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more about your expertise and your

work and your book especially.

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I would, I really would like to

talk about your book and make sure

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that everyone knows about that.

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Jenny: Sure.

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Thank you.

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So my name's Jenny and I have

been a nurse for 30 years.

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I'm a wife and a mom and getting

ready to be 50, so that's exciting.

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My forties have been my best

and I'm just assuming my fifties

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are gonna be even better.

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So I'm I'm looking forward to that.

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But I, yes, been a nurse for 30 years.

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Most of that 19 years now has been

in hospice and end of life care.

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And so that has, that's something that

I fell into, didn't really anticipate

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being in that, but have loved it.

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I still work part-time in in

hospice care, but I found that

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it was very easy to to neglect my

own needs and my family's needs.

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And because I got a lot of fulfillment

out of my work and, it's great when we

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do that because not everybody can say

that, there's some people that work

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as just a, something they have to do.

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And I really did enjoy

the work that I was doing.

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But but it tipped in the other direction

and I really found myself, a lot of my

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identity was tied up in, in my work.

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And I didn't realize that until later

when I went through burnout myself,

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when I finally decided to leave.

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And then I realized, you know what?

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I don't know who I am.

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And and that's actually how I start

my how I start my book was who I am.

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I and that led me on a journey

to, to figuring things out.

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And then my mom passed away

and that was pretty sudden.

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And she was a caregiver who

gave, to everyone but herself.

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And so that just has made me really

passionate about helping others

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see the importance of self-care

and stress relief, and that, that

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it's not always what we think.

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And it doesn't have to be a full-time job.

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It doesn't, it doesn't

mean you're selfish.

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It's the only way that you can continue to

care for others and live your best life.

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Mike: Yeah, no, thanks

for explaining that.

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It really resonates.

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Yeah, I think all caregivers would

really resonate with that story for sure.

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Especially, after I think many caregivers,

I expect maybe most would potentially

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start out on a career very excited and

idealistic and feeling as a, I think

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a lot of caregivers end up devoting

themselves in that sense to wanting to

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help others and feel as though just part

of the job involves a degree of sacrifice.

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But then how do you balance that

with not becoming burnt out is

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really the key is you have to,

you're forced to learn over time.

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Are there particular lessons along those

lines that, that kind of experience

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has taught you about how people are

best able to balance these things as

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they, caregivers as well as others?

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I think to, to an extent, everyone, as

social creatures, we're all involved with

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caring for others just in our day-to-day

social relationships with others, but

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particularly healthcare providers.

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When we talk about caregivers,

are there specific lessons that

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experience has taught you that you

try to share with others so that

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they perhaps can, from learn from

your experiences in order to perhaps

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avoid the risk of burnout as you say?

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Jenny: Yeah.

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And I do agree that, we are social we all

have that that bit of wiring for caring

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for others and helping other people,

but, people who truly are the caregiver

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types, whether it's, professionally

or that's just part of who you are,

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then it kicks it up a notch for sure.

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And with that, you feel like, okay,

I don't have time to take care of me.

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I'm too busy taking care of them,

or, it really, that's really

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what fulfills me is doing that.

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And there is, there definitely

is that component of it for sure.

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But when we give and give and we don't

take that time to reflect, when we don't

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take that time to fill our own cup, then

that's when it gets that's when it gets

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dangerous because we can only give so

much before we become depleted, and like

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you were talking about and the people who

do that over and over it, it's like when

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you get on an airplane, I just went on a

trip and whenever they do the, the oxygen

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mask talk, I'm like that right there.

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Because it's so counterintuitive to, when

there's people who need you, you hear them

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talk about the oxygen mask on a plane and.

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If you're with small children

or somebody that needs help, put

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your own oxygen mask on first.

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And it's of course I'm not gonna do that.

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These people, they can't do it

themselves, but but when you really look

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at that, it's because we have to be,

we have to take care of ourselves or

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we can't continue to care for others.

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Yeah.

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And so I think that a lot of it is

taking the things that maybe we're,

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we've been taught from, different

generations and, men do it too, but

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women especially, have been caregivers

and you take care of everybody else.

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You neglect every, you neglect your

own needs so that you can help other

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people and, and really thinking about

what would happen if I wasn't here?

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I recently was talking to a

fellow nurse and she said, I

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don't have time for self-care.

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And she's somebody that's raising

she's raising her grandkids and

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she's got a lot of things going on.

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And it's that's all the more

reason why you really need to

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take care of yourself because you

do have people counting on you.

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And so it's those little

subtle shifts I think that that

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really can make a difference.

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And sometimes we wear this, busyness

and the fact that we're always

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giving and serving others, we can

wear that as a badge of honor.

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And I think that's something that's

starting to turn around a little bit

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as people realize, in the mental health

realm and all of that, that we've

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gotta take care of our own needs too.

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And it doesn't have to be something that

means you're excluding everybody else.

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I'm not a proponent of being selfish.

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I believe that we can care for others

better when we do care for ourselves.

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Mike: Yeah.

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Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.

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I think I really like that I, the idea

about the oxygen mask on a flight.

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'cause it really, it is counterintuitive.

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I I agree.

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I think I had that initial reaction, when

I started flying, I thought, yeah, that

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seems strange, but it does it, the, it

just occurred to me as you were describing

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that, that it really does reflect the

importance of, even at the outset,

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making self-care the first priority.

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Because in a way you have to, in order

to even just get gas in your tank, right?

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To be able to offer help to others.

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And it also reminds me of

something that was really.

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Profoundly impactful in terms of

figuring out parenting, right?

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It's of course you think parenting is

in a way the ultimate caregiving role

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and you wanna do everything you can to

try to be the best parent that you can.

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And out of this sort of, really

profound love for the child, right?

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But on the other hand, that message that

one of the best things that you can give

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to your child is for them to see you happy

and to see you caring for yourself as a

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way of modeling the importance of that.

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In a way that was a really profound

permission to say, okay as much as it's

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possible, especially, with a really

young kid baby, basically when they're

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in need of that care all the time.

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But to just try as much as one can

to fit self care into the picture

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is so important in that role.

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Jenny: Absolutely.

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And that's, that's one of the things

that I do say as well, is that of

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course, there are different levels of

that and there are exceptions, like you

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mentioned with, with an infant or if

you're caring for someone that is, elderly

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or incapacitated in some way and truly

has to have that, 24 7 eyes on you care

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then that's gonna look different than if

are a part-time caregiver for someone,

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or if you're working in a caregiving

capacity or you have older children.

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Just figuring out like

what that looks like.

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And that's where I really e

encourage a personalized approach

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to that instead of thinking of,

self care is one size fits all.

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Looking at what is it that,

that I know fills me up?

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What are the things or the people

that I know when I'm around them

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or when I do them that I feel

better and I feel more relaxed.

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I feel less stressed.

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And how often are you doing those things?

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And just being conscious of that.

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And really that starts with just

checking in with yourself instead of

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just pushing through the next thing.

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Slowing down and just thinking, okay, you

know what, like how am I really right now?

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Mike: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That makes a lot of sense.

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It does because there, there is a t

because it can be rewarding on the

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one hand, especially for folks who

have that wiring to wanna help others.

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And perhaps, obviously there is gonna

be some degree of self-sacrifice that's

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necessary with a caregiving role.

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And in general, I think that's

generally something that reflects

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maturity and it's adaptive.

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But when that becomes

almost too much of a.

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Default then, people will have that

tendency to neglect that voice inside that

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says, Hey, I'm getting tired, or, Hey,

I need a break, or what have you, right?

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I'm curious though, I think that's

key in terms of what you just

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mentioned about the personalization.

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Can you expand on that a little

and maybe talk a bit about your.

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I'm interested to hear more about your

becoming method and the acronym and how

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that all relates to the personalization.

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I expect that's part of it.

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Jenny: Yes.

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Yes it is.

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Yeah.

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When I first was on my own journey, when

I had left my first hospice job and at

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first I felt the sense of freedom and then

I thought, wait a minute, now, who am I?

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And I went into a dark place of

trying to figure out what my life

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was supposed to look like then.

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And part of that was, part of that

was the job and leaving that it

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had been a very big part of my

life and the people there as well.

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I started when the company was small and

so it was like a dysfunctional family.

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It was hard to leave that.

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And also my youngest sons were a junior

and senior in high school, so I was

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looking at all of that dynamic changing,

and there was a lot of, there was a lot

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of a lot of pieces moving at that point.

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So I fell into coaching.

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I didn't really, I didn't

really know much about that.

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But when I did find out a

little, I thought, you know what?

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I love this because I've always been

very interested in the way that people's

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minds work and people's emotions.

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And that's my favorite part of

nursing is the, the psychosocial

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and emotional and aspects of it.

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Not as much the physical stuff.

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So I went through my own kind of

trying to figure out like what is

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it that, that I need to be doing?

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And I looked outside a lot, in terms

of looking at different programs

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that people had and reading different

books and things and trying to figure

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out, the right way to, to do things.

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And what I figured out

over that time was that I.

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Some of the things that they

said to do weren't things that

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really seemed to do much for me.

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But when I took the time to think about

what is it that I really, when am I happy?

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When do I feel like calm and

peaceful and relaxed and energized?

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And when I started looking at

all of that and looking at the

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things that matter to me, then

that really changed things for me.

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And so I had named my when I formed

my coaching company I named it

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Becoming Your Best with Jenny Leal,

rn, because the, I think we're all in,

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all in progress where all these works

in, works in progress, in process.

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It's, we're always becoming, and that's

something that I, I don't feel like we

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ever arrive at where we're supposed to be.

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As long as we're breathing,

we're still evolving.

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And also, it's, becoming your best because

your best, and my best may be different.

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What we, what our capabilities are,

what our desires are, what, so there's

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a lot of personalization in that.

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And so when I started looking at

some of the things that, that I

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had worked through myself to figure

out, who am I, what do I want and

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what do I want my life to look like?

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I ended up being able to pull that

together in an acronym that kind of

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combines the work that I did there.

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And it's a, it's a loose translation

of the nursing process as well.

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And which, which that comes down to.

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So that's api.

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So assess, diagnose, plan,

implement, and evaluate.

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And so it's the same general

ideas with the becoming method.

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It's it's overall, it's where are

you now, where do you want to go

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and how are you gonna get there?

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But it breaks things down bit

by bit, starting with, B is

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baseline for where are you now?

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And so really taking a look at.

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How life is at this moment.

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Because sometimes, when we set off

to make a change, then it can be very

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very daunting when it's but there's

this and here's this stuff in my past.

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And all of those things, yes, are

true, but just getting a clear

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picture of where I am right now.

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And it's, like when you're

setting the GPS when you get in

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the car, first to get somewhere,

you need to know where you're at.

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Otherwise it's gonna be a,

it's gonna be a strange ride.

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Yeah.

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And then and then moving through, like

the e is excitement, the things that

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light me up and it, it's getting into

then, confidence the gifts that you have

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the skills, the talents, the, all of the

maybe education that plays into that.

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And looking also at your

values and your uniqueness.

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So the o is only you because, we all

do have those things that are special

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about us that sometimes we don't realize

because we just assume if we can do 'em

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well or if that's a, something that,

that we enjoy and others tell us that

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we're good at, everybody else can too.

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And that's just not true.

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There are, we have those unique

gifts that some of us are much

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better at than others, and.

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And then the things that mean

most to you, the m is meaning.

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So what makes your life meaningful

or what kinds of things would

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make life more meaningful?

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And then the I is intention,

what does that look like?

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Setting your intention for

what you want the rest of that

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to look like and his needs.

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So pulling all of that together, what is

it that you need to, maybe look at doing

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differently or things that things that you

can pull in that kind of help with that.

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And then the G's go it, it's a

matter of doing that and then just

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coming back and reevaluating it.

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Because it's not, again, with

that whole becoming thing,

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it's not a one and done thing.

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We learn, we grow life's life

changes seasons in our lives.

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They all.

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We all have different needs

and things that happen at that.

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So it's good to come back and

revisit that, and I just had

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to do that myself recently.

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Mike: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Fantastic.

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Thanks so much for explaining that.

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I think that I love acronyms.

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I think it's really it's very creative

and I think it's, sounds exactly

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like what would be very helpful.

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I know I could have used that

many years ago and I started to

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get into trouble with burnout and

compassion fatigue myself at work.

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Yeah, it's one of those things that's easy

to ignore and just dismiss for too long.

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Most of us do for too long,

and then you end up with.

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The implications, whether it's

irritability at home or just, health

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issues oneself and neglecting, your

healthy lifestyle issues because

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of feeling inclined to be working

too much and that kind of stuff.

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But your book then, so Self-Care

isn't Selfish, that's the title

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of your book, is that right?

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Jenny: Yes, it is.

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It's Self-Care Isn't Selfish.

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The Compassionate Nurses step-by-Step

Guide to Personalize Stress Relief.

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So yes, it's it's short.

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It's it's pretty to the point.

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It's something that's a very easy read.

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I wanted something that, that

would be accessible to people who

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who maybe think, you know what,

I don't have time for self-care.

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I don't have time to read a big old book.

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And it's written just the way I talk.

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It's not there's nothing incredibly

professional or profound.

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And that's what I say, it's a lot of the

things that, that I'm a big proponent

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of the things that I share and teach.

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We know a lot of it.

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And, I know me personally, there

have been many times when, I

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think, oh, I've heard that before.

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And then well, yeah, I've heard

it because it makes sense, but

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I've never actually done it.

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And so that, knowing something and doing

something are two very different things.

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And my book is my story of course.

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And I go into that some.

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And then the reasons why self care

and stress relief are important,

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but then just it's just several

chapters of, a page or two of here's

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practical things that, that you can do.

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And again, not all of them are gonna

apply to everybody because like for me, I

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know that massages are good for me, like.

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All the way around, mentally, physically

that's just, that's such a great, that,

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that's a great thing for me, and that's

what helps keep me functioning at my best.

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There's some people who don't

wanna be touched, and that's fine.

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I like being outside.

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I like starting my

mornings with devotions.

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That's not for everybody, but it's

figuring out what are those things.

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And I think one of the, one of the keys

is trying to figure that out before you're

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in the midst of burnout, before you're

in the midst of a crisis, because, that's

355

:

not when the house is on fire, is not

when you figure out the way to escape.

356

:

So that's, that's that's

my book in a nutshell.

357

:

Mike: Yeah.

358

:

Yeah.

359

:

No, it sounds awesome.

360

:

I think, yeah it's tricky because there's

obviously, there's for and I can speak

361

:

from experience, just thinking about

how, in, in a way it's a, it's seductive

362

:

if you're wired a certain way, I think

in terms of your temperament and your

363

:

character, it can be seductive to want

to pour from that empty cup, so to speak.

364

:

As that metaphor goes and just feel

as though, like you said earlier, it's

365

:

part of many people's identity, right?

366

:

So they feel inclined to lean into

that, to the point that it becomes,

367

:

eventually becomes unhealthy.

368

:

I was really curious because it sounds

like one of your key insights is

369

:

this idea that neglecting self-care

can actually become a selfish act.

370

:

Maybe because it gets to the point

where someone is leaning into that,

371

:

but feels comfortable initially.

372

:

In, in, so that, in a selfish way

that, that, that ends up being.

373

:

Counterproductive.

374

:

Does that, is that kind of in keeping

with what that insight is about?

375

:

Or could you clarify

or correct me on that?

376

:

Jenny: Yes, so yes.

377

:

I think that it can be that

way where we get so much

378

:

satisfaction and, gratification

from what others are telling us.

379

:

Because part of it is, we have that just

like we feel good when we do it, but if

380

:

we're good at what we do, then a lot of

times people are telling us that, and that

381

:

was my, excuse me, that was my situation.

382

:

When I had first started in hospice

where I, at the time we had me, my

383

:

husband and I, we had six kids at home.

384

:

Kids don't often tell you

how great you are, especially

385

:

when they're boys and yeah.

386

:

I've noticed teenage.

387

:

Yeah.

388

:

You don't hear a lot of that.

389

:

And I always felt like I was

failing somehow, which I think

390

:

a lot of times as parents, we

feel like we're not doing enough.

391

:

And, but then when I started working in

hospice, I, my patients and families,

392

:

they loved me and they told me how

great I was and how helpful I was.

393

:

They don't know what they

would've done without me.

394

:

That real, that felt good.

395

:

And so then of course, these people who,

they really need me and we have this bond,

396

:

and yes, the rest of my team's great, but

they're not bonded with them like I am.

397

:

And so I would.

398

:

I was on call for my patients all

the time, we we had call teams but I

399

:

was like no, just call me, I already

know what's going on and all that.

400

:

I'd go visit 'em in the middle of

the night, whether I was on call

401

:

or not, if they needed something.

402

:

And then that just carried

over into when, when somebody

403

:

needed to actually be on call.

404

:

If somebody wasn't able to

do it or was sick or whatever

405

:

then I'd be like I'll do it.

406

:

Because somebody had to and I just

had really bad boundaries, so I

407

:

was frequently the one to do that.

408

:

And then, in, in doing that, in

getting my own needs met in some

409

:

ways, with all of that, I neglected

my family and I, my husband.

410

:

He was supportive and always has

been of whatever I wanted to do.

411

:

And my kids were understanding.

412

:

But in reality I wasn't there a lot

of time when I should have been.

413

:

And that's because I felt

good doing what I was doing.

414

:

And and there could have been other

people that would've picked up the

415

:

slack, it didn't always have to be me,

even though it felt like it at the time.

416

:

And my mom, she.

417

:

She was also a nurse.

418

:

And she had some health issues and

she had she was on disability, so

419

:

she hadn't been working for a while

but she was still very involved with

420

:

trying to meet everybody's needs.

421

:

And she would get on different

Facebook groups and things like that

422

:

where, you know, where people would

be like, oh, I need this for my kids.

423

:

And my mom would be trying

to match 'em up with people.

424

:

And she did so much of that, that that

she didn't always have time for us

425

:

when we, wanted to do things, which I,

and I'm not, that definitely went both

426

:

ways, but she neglected her own needs

so much, her own health so much that.

427

:

I really believe that a lot of that is

what contributed to her early death.

428

:

She died at 61 of a ruptured

brain aneurysm, and That's great.

429

:

Thank you.

430

:

I and it's so I went through a lot

of, a lot of regular grieving, a lot

431

:

of anger and frustration and sadness

and it's just I wish that she would

432

:

have taken better care of herself.

433

:

I wish that I would have encouraged her

to take better care of herself, other

434

:

than, maybe just saying you need to

take better care yourself, but maybe

435

:

a little more compassionately, shared

some of that because, now I'm without

436

:

my mom and my kids don't have their

grandma and so it's just it's not a

437

:

thing that just affects us in the moment.

438

:

Mike: Yeah.

439

:

Yeah.

440

:

Thanks so much for sharing your

story and again, my condolences

441

:

for your Thank you, your loss.

442

:

And I think it's, but it is, I can see

how in what you're doing in this work

443

:

it's honoring your mom's memory in terms

of what you're doing to help others.

444

:

And I think that really speaks volumes

because I think a lot of us in the.

445

:

In that situation where we say whether

it's being stuck in between maybe stuck

446

:

iss not the best term, but yeah, I

suppose you feel that way sometimes,

447

:

but you're like, a lot of people in this

generation, particularly they call the

448

:

sandwich generation maybe in between

caring for younger kids and aging parents.

449

:

So whether it's that at home and or a

caregiving role at work feeling like they

450

:

just simply don't have time for self-care.

451

:

If someone comes back with that

kind of retort, then what would

452

:

you typically say to them?

453

:

Is it just, does it just come back

to this whole notion that if you.

454

:

That mentality that it's a non-starter

and it's very likely to lead to

455

:

burnout, or how would you approach it

if someone just says, look, I don't

456

:

have time for self care, end of story.

457

:

Jenny: And I, again, I know that it, that

people do have different circumstances

458

:

and like you said, especially those

who are caring for, caring for parents

459

:

and caring for children at the same

time, and, most of the time working as

460

:

well and trying to balance all of that.

461

:

I'm not saying that it's easy at all,

and I don't, I don't ever want anybody

462

:

to think that I'm saying just make it

happen, but I do believe that sometimes

463

:

when we think of self-care or we think

of, okay, I need to do these things

464

:

for me, that it needs to be something.

465

:

Elaborate that it needs to be something

incredibly time consuming or expensive.

466

:

And I'm all about beach vacations

and spa days too, but the reality is

467

:

those don't fit into our daily lives.

468

:

For some of us, those don't

fit into our lives at all.

469

:

And so it's finding those little

things that, that really have more

470

:

of an impact long term than maybe

some of the bigger things do.

471

:

So things like, breathing taking

time to take a few deep breaths.

472

:

And I encourage people, if the only

time that you've got to yourself is when

473

:

you're in the bathroom, and sometimes if

you have little kids, I know that's not

474

:

even to yourself just taking three or

four deep breaths while you're in there,

475

:

the world is not going to stop while

you have that extra, 60 seconds of time.

476

:

But it really can help to reregulate

your nervous system and, just to

477

:

remind you that, hey, like I matter.

478

:

And so things like that maybe it's

going outside and, getting your feet in

479

:

the grass or just taking a few breaths

or looking around and seeing, Hey,

480

:

here's the trees, here's the birds.

481

:

And just having that little

mini break from the norm.

482

:

Doing things like focusing on gratitude

because there's times when that's hard

483

:

because it seems like everything is

awful and it's all kind of coming down

484

:

on you and really focusing on those

little things that that are good.

485

:

And it may be as simple as, a cup

of coffee or you saw a hummingbird

486

:

the hummingbirds just came here.

487

:

So it's exciting to to see them.

488

:

But, maybe somebody paid you a compliment

and noticed something that you did.

489

:

But those little things like that

can really have a big impact.

490

:

And I.

491

:

The people who, push back on that.

492

:

I just encourage 'em, just

try it for a week or so,

493

:

and just see what that looks like.

494

:

And then definitely, if you're able to

to fit in sleep and really prioritize

495

:

sleep, of course, you know how important

sleep is, that's when we, that's when our

496

:

bodies really rejuvenate and heal and if

there are ways to make sure that you're

497

:

getting sleep, if there's people that,

maybe can help out a little bit with some

498

:

of those times where you're able to get

some good sleep and nutrition, making

499

:

sure that you're eating and drinking

water and getting some kind of exercise.

500

:

It's all of those basic things that

501

:

Just adding them in little bits at a

time and having grace with yourself

502

:

too, because there's gonna be days

when maybe it all doesn't come together

503

:

nice and neat, and all you can do is

remember to, okay, you know what, I

504

:

probably took a breath when I was in

the bathroom and I don't know what else

505

:

I fit in today, but just, coming back

to the things that that do matter and

506

:

hopefully having some people in your

corner too that you know, somebody that

507

:

you can just talk to, be yourself with.

508

:

Share the struggles that

you're going through.

509

:

And and just knowing that you're.

510

:

That you're not alone.

511

:

Mike: Because

512

:

Jenny: it can feel lonely.

513

:

Mike: Yeah, for sure.

514

:

No, I thanks so much.

515

:

Those are fantastic tips on accessible

ways of just breaking the cycle

516

:

and just allowing some room for the

importance of those, especially the

517

:

gratitude piece that's so important.

518

:

I, and it came to mind that I wondered if

maybe your experience in hospice care, is

519

:

part of what, what brought that insight?

520

:

Because I can imagine, and I've certainly

learned a lot from patients that I've

521

:

looked after, who've been facing end of

life issues in terms of how they've come

522

:

to be intentional about gratitude, w hen

obviously things are in general dark.

523

:

And there's a lot of anxiety.

524

:

But the, what helps to, counterbalance

that, or act as an antidote to the

525

:

anxiety in particular, is to really

be intentional about gratitude.

526

:

Jenny: Yes, it is.

527

:

It's something that, of course we're

wired to focus on the negative to keep

528

:

us safe, when we look for those little

things that that are good, that are going

529

:

well in our lives and even in the midst of

lots of things not going well, then, that

530

:

reminds us there is still good out there.

531

:

And I had a friend who she was a nurse

as well, and actually she was one of

532

:

the the founders of my first hospice.

533

:

And we became good friends and

we traveled together and stuff.

534

:

And she was just, she was wonderful.

535

:

And she she was diagnosed with

cancer and things progressed very

536

:

quickly and she, her whole I.

537

:

Her whole attitude through the

whole thing was just amazing.

538

:

She had a very strong faith as well.

539

:

But she had a lot to live for, she had

great friends and kids and grandkids

540

:

and was very involved in all of that.

541

:

And but she just, she died with so much

like love and grace and peace that it was

542

:

it was very inspiring to, to see that.

543

:

And she never, there was never any why me?

544

:

There wasn't really any anger to it.

545

:

It just, it was.

546

:

It was exceptional.

547

:

The way that it all

went, and I don't know.

548

:

I don't know that I would be that strong.

549

:

But it was beautiful.

550

:

And I think that made it easier for

those of us who loved her because we were

551

:

able to, she was so at peace with it.

552

:

It was hard to, it was hard

to fight it, it's, yeah.

553

:

If she's okay with it then and there

wasn't, there wasn't anything that,

554

:

that she could have really done to

change it, she but it was but it was

555

:

something just to, to see that and

the power of gratitude and mindset

556

:

and what a difference that can make.

557

:

Mike: Yeah, for sure.

558

:

I think it's, it, yeah.

559

:

It's there obviously there.

560

:

Psychological components,

but spiritual as well.

561

:

I think it, it's understandable that

you're using terms like grace and faith,

562

:

and I'm curious that, how have you found

that faith or spirituality regardless

563

:

of, one's worldview or religious

background, I'm just curious about how

564

:

the, let's use the term spirituality then.

565

:

Is it something, yeah.

566

:

To what extent has that been

something that you've found for

567

:

yourself and for folks that you've

worked with and you've coached to?

568

:

Really yeah.

569

:

To help them to promote or recognize the

importance of self-care and to put that

570

:

recognition into action for themselves.

571

:

Jenny: Yeah.

572

:

So I, that's interesting.

573

:

The way that you asked

that, that's interesting.

574

:

And I, I am, I'm a Jesus follower.

575

:

That's that's who I am, who I've

been for really since I was young

576

:

and then straight away for a while.

577

:

But that's something that

gives me a it gives me a lot of

578

:

peace and comfort and guidance.

579

:

I feel and I know that, that not

everybody agrees with that, that I don't

580

:

share the same views with everybody.

581

:

And that's okay.

582

:

That's one of my, I feel like that's

one of my big goals is that I want

583

:

people to know that, like regardless

of what they believe I love and respect

584

:

them and, you don't have to agree with

me to for, to be one of my people.

585

:

And so for me, it's just, I know that

when I start trying to do too much

586

:

on my own and when I don't really,

when I don't really stay connected

587

:

to my faith on a regular basis.

588

:

When I when I start getting, I don't

really know exactly how to say it.

589

:

Like I know that, you know of a

morning when I start my time with

590

:

God, when I start my time with

devotions, my day goes better.

591

:

But life happens.

592

:

It gets busy.

593

:

And there's times when I, when

I go away from that and when I

594

:

do I just feel more unsettled.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

And so I know that's something that's

important to me and for others, it

597

:

may be a different, particular I.

598

:

Faith or organized religion type thing.

599

:

Or it may be more of a, of an outside,

being in nature kind of thing.

600

:

But it's figuring out those things

that, really do fill you up and that,

601

:

that make you better, that you feel

that you feel more connected in.

602

:

Those are the things that I

think we need to lean into.

603

:

And a lot of that is an

intuition type thing.

604

:

And actually, I just wrote this week

about intuition and following our gut

605

:

because I had, I was looking at maybe a

different hospice role, and it was with

606

:

a different company and there were a lot

of things that were exciting about it.

607

:

And it sounded, it sounded like

a good opportunity, but I just

608

:

didn't have peace about it.

609

:

And that's, that's a big thing to

me is, there's times when I feel

610

:

like God lets me know things.

611

:

Very specifically.

612

:

And there's other times when it's

just that sense of, okay, when

613

:

everything's good, like I just okay,

I don't know, but it's all gonna work

614

:

out and I just feel good about it.

615

:

And with this, I just I

didn't I couldn't get that.

616

:

And so I turned down the position

and I said, look, this isn't, this

617

:

just isn't something that I can do.

618

:

And I think it's great.

619

:

I'm, I hope you guys find a, the

perfect candidate but it's not me.

620

:

And and so I think learning to, to tune

into that a little bit more is is helpful.

621

:

And just to trust that when you

feel it, even when it doesn't

622

:

always make sense to others.

623

:

Mike: Yeah.

624

:

Yeah.

625

:

No, I yeah, thanks for explaining

that and I guess it's interesting

626

:

as I even just reflect on how I

ask the question and your answer.

627

:

'cause I share your Christian faith

and I think part of what I'm challenged

628

:

with here, in that, in the hesitation

that I had with the question and at work

629

:

for sure, and particularly Vancouver,

which is known to be hyper secular.

630

:

And even though I work at a, historically

a Catholic healthcare institution

631

:

it's still something that you're not

really supposed to, or it's certainly

632

:

something that's typically not.

633

:

Comfortable to bring up at work as far as

like they talk about the importance, as

634

:

of the bio-psychosocial spiritual model.

635

:

Healthcare and mental healthcare,

I suppose in particular.

636

:

But the spiritual side of it is

almost just like an afterthought.

637

:

And it's awkward to bring up in certain

cases, but I suppose how, and exactly

638

:

what you just explained in terms of part

of the personalization of the approach

639

:

is to just try and align it with the

client's world view, whatever that is.

640

:

And as you say it's, if it's, if it is

strictly secular, maybe that relates to

641

:

how they might define spirituality for

themselves in terms of being in nature

642

:

or whatever it is that, that brings that

sense of, i, I don't know, transcendence

643

:

or however you might describe it.

644

:

Jenny: And I, I do, I think it's

something that, that it is, it's easy

645

:

to be uncomfortable with because there

are so many, there are so many people

646

:

who have had such bad experiences.

647

:

I think with with Christians that they,

that they don't want any part of that.

648

:

And so my, and I'm not saying

that I've got it all figured out

649

:

or that I'm better than that.

650

:

What, but I do believe, like I, I

believe that my job is to love people.

651

:

And if I'm loving people and if

I'm doing what I feel is right

652

:

then, I don't need to judge you.

653

:

I don't need to figure out if what you're

doing is, is something that I agree with.

654

:

If it's right or wrong,

like my job's to love you.

655

:

And if and when something needs

to change with you, I feel

656

:

like that's like God's job.

657

:

And but I just, I want people

to, I want people to know that

658

:

they're loved no matter what.

659

:

And I think that, there's so much that

goes on that that alienates people.

660

:

And.

661

:

I, especially when it

comes to, mental health.

662

:

Here our, suicide is a big thing

and it doesn't matter if I agree

663

:

with everything you're doing.

664

:

If you're not here than none

of that can, can change.

665

:

So I would rather err on the side of

loving and accepting someone and, and

666

:

maybe being part of a reason that they

think maybe there is a reason to go on.

667

:

And, the rest of that can get

figured out, but people just have

668

:

to know they're cared about and

669

:

And we don't all have to agree with each

other to to be kind and compassionate

670

:

and and I think that's something that

unfortunately is a little lacking

671

:

in the world, being able to have

differences and still, get along.

672

:

Mike: Yeah.

673

:

Yeah, for sure.

674

:

A hundred percent.

675

:

I think that's a really important

message these days, especially,

676

:

obviously, I think Yeah, for sure.

677

:

And just trying to bring

It doesn't have to.

678

:

Yeah, there doesn't have to be, 'cause

again, part of why I was just thinking

679

:

it's in some ways timely and who knows,

maybe it's just supposed to be that way.

680

:

But we just had a message the other day

at church about the issue of, being the

681

:

shining light on the hill, so to speak,

and how it's hard to do that again in,

682

:

in a society that's it's great in terms

of being pluralistic to multicultural.

683

:

And I suppose you get the secular

side of that, but then when there are

684

:

people from all different faiths, it's

really a blessing in a way to be able

685

:

to learn from them and to just find

commonalities and try to just see, okay,

686

:

what are, even though people may and

in fact do have different worldviews

687

:

and that's fine, then how can we find

commonalities and use what's healthy

688

:

about all of our different worldviews?

689

:

To just help to look after

ourselves and each other.

690

:

Jenny: And it's funny that you

said that because Yes, I agree.

691

:

And that's something, especially when

I was maybe a little more uncomfortable

692

:

with my faith or not feeling quite as

secure, I would, I would get a little

693

:

bit uncomfortable about having, looking

into other other faiths too much or,

694

:

like it was going to just sway me

in a way that I didn't want it to.

695

:

But and I definitely am not

an expert on any any religion.

696

:

But but what I found is that as I talk

to, different people from other cultures

697

:

and things like that, it just, it

makes me think of things differently.

698

:

It makes me question things, which

really just makes my faith deeper.

699

:

And that's one of the things that.

700

:

At our church that that we always say

is that, our pastor just started out

701

:

when our church started and said that,

I doubt, I don't believe that doubts and

702

:

questions are the enemy of our faith.

703

:

But but silence can be, because those

things, when we bring things to the

704

:

forefront and we have discussions like

this then it makes us think, oh, you

705

:

know what I hadn't thought of that.

706

:

Or, it kind of clarifies

things a little bit.

707

:

Or maybe there's something that, you

know, because there's a lot of things

708

:

in the Bible that makes you go, what?

709

:

And so having, having some conversations

around that and what that, what

710

:

things really meant contextually

and in the, in that time period and,

711

:

that can really make a difference.

712

:

Where if you just keep things quiet and

think you know what, that just doesn't

713

:

sit well with me, then then that can

have a different sort of impact on you.

714

:

Mike: Definitely a hundred percent.

715

:

No, and I guess, yeah, it makes me

think, coming back to your book, into

716

:

your program, the becoming program, I

guess if Yeah, in that sense, or just

717

:

not necessarily related to the spiritual

aspect, but just in, in general, I'm

718

:

just curious, what have you found in

your work with clients and in your

719

:

own experience, this idea of becoming,

again, I love the acronym what help

720

:

me understand, what does becoming mean

as far as how, let's say, how can each

721

:

of us start in that becoming journey?

722

:

So say we recognize that that, burnout

and, lack of self-care is an issue.

723

:

And in that sense of becoming and

just really discovering ourselves

724

:

and discovering that healthy balance.

725

:

Yeah.

726

:

What would be some initial first

steps that you would typically

727

:

encourage clients to, to try to.

728

:

Proceed through in terms of that

initial part of that journey.

729

:

Jenny: Yeah, I love that.

730

:

So it's the first step, I believe

is really just taking a look at

731

:

where, at, where you are right now.

732

:

So starting with that baseline, and

usually I do a I with clients or when

733

:

I'm doing workshops or whatever, I'll

do a wheel of life and have that, and

734

:

I don't know if everybody's familiar

with that, but, so it's a, a circle

735

:

that basically it's 10 concentric

circles that are together and.

736

:

And so you have the different

the different categories of

737

:

your life that are on there.

738

:

Maybe there's spiritual, like we were

just talking about in physical health

739

:

and mental health and relationships

and maybe it's like your significant

740

:

other relationship and your friends

and your finances and your your career.

741

:

And so looking at all of those

different areas and rating them from

742

:

one to 10, with one being, Hey, this

is not going well at all, and 10

743

:

being it couldn't be any better and.

744

:

Really looking at those things

and not overthinking it, but just

745

:

quickly putting down the first

thing that comes to your mind.

746

:

And I always, caution people to look,

if you rate your family a five, that

747

:

doesn't mean you don't love your family.

748

:

That just means you know,

that there's some things that

749

:

could use some work there.

750

:

And for areas that maybe don't

apply, like significant other if

751

:

you're not someone with a significant

other, then you can change that.

752

:

Or you can, look at that as, okay,

how do I feel about that situation?

753

:

Again, very personalized, but once

you've done that, then you're looking

754

:

at, if you draw a line to connect all

of those things, you're probably gonna

755

:

have some that are, in the upper numbers,

maybe some that are a little lower.

756

:

And so when you look at that, and

if that's your wheel, if that's

757

:

how you're getting through life,

you know how bumpy is your ride.

758

:

And it really helps to clarify that.

759

:

Usually there are some areas that

are good and some that aren't.

760

:

And we can over generalize and think,

either life's going great or it's awful.

761

:

And when we, when we break that down

and see those different those different

762

:

areas and we're able to really look at

that, then we can then figure out, okay,

763

:

so these areas are going pretty well, so

maybe like, why is that, what's, is it

764

:

because I'm spending more time in them?

765

:

Are there things that I can

learn from that maybe I can

766

:

use to bump up the other ones?

767

:

Or maybe I'm putting a lot of attention

on those and that's how it got there.

768

:

But now maybe can I back off a little

bit and move some of that attention over

769

:

to something that's a little bit lower?

770

:

So I think that's a great way

to, to get started and then just

771

:

working through what is it that I.

772

:

What is it that you want?

773

:

Because we're busy, we go through

life on autopilot most of the time.

774

:

We don't stop to think about, okay, we

know we want something to be different.

775

:

We just kinda have that feeling, but we

don't know what we want to be different.

776

:

And so starting to think about what is

it that, that you would like to change?

777

:

In what ways would you

like life to be different?

778

:

And just really starting

with all of that questioning.

779

:

And then, and then making just slow steps.

780

:

You don't have to do it all at once.

781

:

And I know I, I can be a very all or

nothing kind of person, if I decide

782

:

that I like tea, then I'm not just

gonna buy, one or two kinds of tea.

783

:

I've got.

784

:

15.

785

:

And really, I probably

have more than that.

786

:

And that, that's just

that's my personality.

787

:

But it can be that way with, when

we're trying to make changes too.

788

:

And sometimes that's, that gives you a

jumpstart, but really most of the time

789

:

that kind of means you go, okay, I can't

do all of this stuff, and then you stop.

790

:

So just realizing that, l little

incremental progress is still progress.

791

:

And just getting really clear on the

things that maybe one thing or two

792

:

things that you'd like to change.

793

:

And then once you get that kind of,

where you're like, okay, this is

794

:

feeling a little more comfortable

now then revisit it and know that it

795

:

doesn't all have to be done right now.

796

:

Mike: Yeah, for sure.

797

:

I let the metaphor again of the, like

you said just now and at the beginning,

798

:

the GPS or the map, the concept of

the map in terms of it, identifying

799

:

where you are now and sketching that

out and then identifying the goal is

800

:

super important, and then figuring

out the path with how to get there.

801

:

Definitely.

802

:

Yeah, that's great.

803

:

Maybe Jenny, can you share share for where

folks can find out about your book and

804

:

your program online or on social media?

805

:

Jenny: Yes.

806

:

Yeah, so really the easiest way

is to go to jenny lidle.com,

807

:

and that's J-E-N-N-Y-L-Y-T-L E.com.

808

:

And with that there's there's

a, they can access a free copy,

809

:

a free digital copy of my book.

810

:

It is also available on Amazon

in audible and a large print

811

:

hardcover and paperback and Kindle.

812

:

But there is a free download that's

available there on my website.

813

:

And there's also some other free

resources including, the book bonuses

814

:

that because there's extensive book

bonuses that come with that as well.

815

:

And some blog posts and different

ways to, to work with me.

816

:

And and then I also have a, just a

quick podcast that I do usually weekly,

817

:

that's just some usually it's something

that's going on in my life or that

818

:

I've worked with a client on, and so

they're like under 10 minutes each.

819

:

And just quick little actionable

ways to fit in self care.

820

:

Mike: That's awesome.

821

:

That's great.

822

:

I'll put links to all of that

content in the show notes.

823

:

So I'd really encourage

viewers and listeners here

824

:

to check out Jenny's content.

825

:

It's obviously fascinating and

very accessible and I'm sure

826

:

people will find that very helpful.

827

:

I know I'm definitely gonna

continue checking out your work.

828

:

So is there anything that you wanted

to share with us in closing, Jenny?

829

:

Jenny: First of all, just thank you

so much for for this opportunity

830

:

and it's something that I feel so

strongly about and I know that most

831

:

of us that are doing some sort of

work in the in the interpersonal

832

:

caregiver realm, then, we really just

need to remember that we're worth it.

833

:

We it can't be all about everybody else.

834

:

Taking some time for ourselves is

something that that's not only okay.

835

:

It's not selfish, but it is essential.

836

:

It's the only way that we can

continue to show up for the people

837

:

that, that we are caring for.

838

:

And start small, it doesn't

have to be anything big.

839

:

Just start with, start with a few breaths.

840

:

Start with maybe going for a walk, maybe

asking yourself, what is it that I,

841

:

what is it that I need most right now?

842

:

Going from there.

843

:

And definitely if it's something

where you're like, you know what?

844

:

I just, I really don't

know where to start.

845

:

Go on my website, book

a free call with me.

846

:

I'm happy to I'm happy to chat with you.

847

:

It's not, there's nothing like high

pressure and salesy or anything.

848

:

It's just just a way to help you

figure things out a little bit.

849

:

So thank you.

850

:

Mike: That's great.

851

:

Yeah.

852

:

Thank you.

853

:

That's fantastic.

854

:

Okay yeah, appreciate your

expertise and your time.

855

:

It's been a really delightful conversation

and just wish you all the best and

856

:

it'll be great to keep in touch.

857

:

Jenny: Yes.

858

:

Thank you so much.

859

:

I appreciate it.

860

:

Mike: Okay.

861

:

All the best.

862

:

Take care.

863

:

Bye-bye now.

864

:

Jenny: Thanks.

865

:

Bye.

866

:

Mike: Thanks again for joining me

today on the Neurostimulation Podcast.

867

:

I hope that you enjoyed this

discussion as much as I did.

868

:

If you found today's episode

interesting, don't forget to like

869

:

and subscribe to the podcast.

870

:

It's the best way to make sure that you

never miss an episode, and it also is

871

:

the best way to help us to reach more

interested and curious minds like yours.

872

:

If you think that this episode

in particular might resonate with

873

:

a friend, a family member, or a

colleague, please share it with them.

874

:

Knowledge is better when it's shared

and you never know who might find

875

:

this information helpful or inspiring.

876

:

For more information about Jenny's work,

please check out the links in the show

877

:

notes, and don't hesitate to put comments

or questions in the comment section below.

878

:

Your questions, ideas, and

feedback make this podcast better.

879

:

Finally, don't forget to

tune into the next episode.

880

:

It's going to be another exciting

journey into the cutting edge of

881

:

neuroscience, general health and wellness.

882

:

Thanks again for listening.

883

:

Take care.

884

:

Stay curious, and I'll see you next

time on the Neurostimulation Podcast.

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About the Podcast

The Neurostimulation Podcast
Welcome to The Neurostimulation Podcast, your go-to source for the latest in clinical neurostimulation! Here, we dive deep into the revolutionary techniques that are shaping the future of health care.

Whether you're a healthcare professional, a student, or simply passionate about neuroscience, this podcast will keep you informed, inspired, and connected with the evolving world of neurostimulation.

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About your host

Profile picture for Michael Passmore

Michael Passmore

Dr. Michael Passmore is a psychiatrist based in Vancouver, BC, with expertise in neurostimulation therapies. Having completed specialized training in multiple neurostimulation modalities, including electroconvulsive therapy at Duke University and transcranial magnetic stimulation at Harvard University, Dr. Passmore brings a robust clinical and academic background to his practice. Formerly the head of the neurostimulation program in the department of Psychiatry at Providence Health Care, Dr. Passmore now serves as a clinical associate professor at the University of British Columbia’s Department of Psychiatry. From his clinic, ZipStim Neurostimulation (zipstim.com), Dr. Passmore offers private, physician-supervised, home-based transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) treatments tailored to clients across Canada.​